Please Help Zebra Tipapia Cichlid

[Stephen]

You're on the ball now, well done.

All the best

[Cassie]

Thank you Stephen. Just had his 2nd dose this morning. Now I'm off to try and sort out a baby barn owl that is on the ground.

[Cassie]

Appreciated all your advice and support. This is an update on our current situation. We completed two courses of the Octozin (Waterlife) hole in the head treatment, as advised. The aquarium shop recommended a second dosage. He stopped eating and from the reading I have done then demonstrated behaviours that indicated a more severe infection. Off the top of my head, he was hanging around one side of the tank, not feeding (which he had always done previous), and just looked miserable. He has a big personality so I can say he is 'miserable'. I need to do right by him so I've been to the vets (after some research, rightly or wrongly) and have some metronidazole and I am going to try this. We (as in my fish and I) have nothing to lose, and I owe him to try everything I can. Water and temperature are spot on, but as per recommendations I've increased his temperature to 30C and will commence his first dosage tomorrow, dependant on temperature reaching 30c. This has been a ridiculous learning curve, and I just hope we pull through. I'll let you all know how it goes, however I need to stay as positive as I can. If we get through this I'll buy him a beautiful new tank. I now appreciate there are many variables that may have contributed to his condition including his water quality and diet. He is very stubborn with his diet (that's on him), and the water quality (now that's down to me but has drastically improved with all your advice). Please keep your fingers crossed for us xxx

[Stephen]

Temp before water change 82.

No disrespect but everything I've read states a tank water temp of 24/25C (75-77F) for the Zebra Tilapia.

All the best

Agreed. 82 is far too warm.

Water and temperature are spot on, but as per recommendations I've increased his temperature to 30C and will commence his first dosage tomorrow, dependant on temperature reaching 30c.

Why 30C ?

All the best

[Cassie]

Hi, I did some research on hole in the head as he was just getting worse after the two treatments, stopped feeding etc. The article was on a cichlid forum that I came across. It stated two differing treatments as the 'average case' and the 'severe case or reoccurrence'. I've decided to do the latter insofar as severe or reoccurrence, as he has been treated twice now with the waterlife octozin hole in the head treatment. The article advises a 30% water change prior to dosing. A temp of 30C. 400MG of metronidazole/10 gallons of water. After 8 hours do a 25% water change followed by by another 400mg of metronidazole/10 gallons of water. The cycle is repeated for three days. I obtained the metronidazole at the vets. I had got his water conditions and temperature correct as advised here but he has gotten much worse, and I really have nothing to lose at this point. I can't say I'm not anxious but at this stage I really need to try something else. I've worked it out and I've had this fish now for over 8 years, and I need to do anything I can to try and make this better for him, and I do take ownership that I have caused this problem for him. Advise always appreciated. Please keep your fingers crossed for us.

[black ghost]

The two Octozon treatments were di-metridazole, which is the soluble version of metronidazole, so this is basically a third treatment under more stress (the higher temperature) after the first two don’t seem to have worked very well.
I think I would have gone this time with a different treatment. I have no medical training whatsoever but I often disagree with vets when it comes to fish. Their training is very clinical and doesn’t include ongoing experience, for most vets.

[Cassie]

Thank you for your reply. Very much appreciated and I hope you can enlighten me more. I'm up late tonight as I'm having to do a water change at 1.00am but I'm trying my best to sort this out for him. I took the bottle of Octozin to the vets and advised of the two treatments. My understanding is that whilst Dimetridazole is closely related to metronidazole 'Metro' (as an antibiotic) it is not generally licensed for general sale in the U.K. and as such is a POM (Prescription only medicine). On fishbase.in/diseases it advises that the use of metronidazole for treatment has greater results than using dimetnidazole. It suggests the general dosage of 'metro'
as 400-600mg/100 liter for 3 days which supports the article that I read having consulted with the vet regarding treatment. The prerequisite cited for the temperature increase indicates that for a short period of time the increased temperature will not be contra indicated to welfare. At 30c parasites (seemingly) do not like these temperatures? I absolutely take ownership of this situation insofar as it's my fault for his environment. He is totally dependant on me getting it right and I messed up, and trust me I have really beaten my self up for this, as I blindly believed what I was told. So now moving forward he is independently my responsibility and if it that means late nights, vet bills and research whilst asking for help, then absolutely I'm in, whatever it takes. I do understand what you are suggesting regarding vets however as metronidazole is a POM I needed to consult with a vet. My only objective here is to aid resolution, hopefully with positivity, and buy him a beautiful new tank. Fingers crossed xxx. Off to do the water change now.

[LookoutTrout]

I think you are beating yourself up too much about this. Life expectancy is 5-10 years and you've had him 8 years, he's old and has made it further than many

[black ghost]

I believe it’s Dimetro (Octozin) that has a greater success rate than metro. As stated twice by Dr Peter Burgess (a ‘fish vet’) in The Tropical Fishlopaedia. Anyway they’re very similar drugs and my reason for being surprised at the recommendation for a third course is that HITH is usually a compound disease with several agents, and after two courses of Dimetro I would assume that the agents affected by it are gone, leaving behind the bacterial or protozoan agents involved, if any. So I would have expected a different treatment.
But I’m not going to argue with a vet, so fingers crossed that this is the right thing to do. I do admire your dedication to this fish...

[Cassie]

As always very much appreciate advise. I'm now very confused. I've done another water change and medication dosage this morning as per instructions, I've previously cited above. So I've been given 10 tablets (500m strength) and to give 1st dose 6 1/4 tablets and then after 8 hours change 25% of the water with 1 1/2 tablets crushed into the water. Repeat the cycle for 3 days. So if I'm repeating the same cycle for 3 days (72hours) surely I need another 9 tablets to complete the regime, as the dosage has been reduced to 1 1/2 tablets. I did ascertain that the metro is only active in the water for 8 hours, which will be why there is a need to repeat the medication after 8 hours, but if I read it correctly should it be 6 1/2 tablets every 8 hours for 72 hours. This in conjunction with the water changes seems pretty brutal? I 'think' I need to keep the elevated temperature whilst I'm medicating as it appears the increased temperature speeds up the metabolic rate and then the rate of medication absorption through the gills is enhanced? If I need more tablets of metronidazole I need to get to the vets or should I just abandon this treatment now and try something else. Black Ghost I guess I'm asking you what you would try instead of the metro. I appreciate it is a long shot for us but I need to try at least. Really appreciate some advise here, and I fully appreciate at the end of the day it is my call what to do but any help would be useful.