Come on Boris, give us some good news!

[Ruth]

People for you.... moan when something goes right, moan when something goes wrong, ignore advice then moan that things have gone wrong..

Humans are a selfish breed, who only look out for themselves. The reason we are in the situation we are in.
Only ourselves to blame.

I’m out!
* drop*

Aye.

[Flex365]

.....

[mattindevon]

The government are basing all this on 'cases' which are little more than a lot of false positive PCR tests. There's little to no chance of escaping these measures with them being based on such flimsy 'evidence'.

That's just untrue. Cases is based on a variety of tests with variable accuracy [mattindevon's empshasis] and the decision metrics account for those inaccuracies. The scale of the effort to get accurate numbers is unparalleled in my lifetime. The evidence is far from flimsy and people who say it is just want to deny reality to feel comfortable.

If shutting down the country works why then is it that after so many months of full and partial shutdown this supposed pandemic is allegedly so desperately out of control that the country is being turned into a concentration camp? Is there really any logic in what we're told? Nothing about this makes me feel comfortable I can assure you. As for the cases, what does such a number tell you even if it's accurate? Next to nothing. A seasonal virus is with us just like every other year and it spreads uncontrollably just as any virus would.

The fact is that the hospitals are quieter than normal. Almost nobody has died ofCovid, but rather withit (average age 82). Arguments could be made for shielding certain people if they can be shielded and want to but what the government is doing is inflicting all sorts of damage on the country for no discernable gain. Where's the evidence that any of the government's measures has actually worked? We know their data modelling is wrong in just about every way.

My question would be this: how far are people happy for this to go on? All through 2021? Two more years, three? How can society and the economy possibly cope with this? Who pays for the NHS when the national debt is skyrocketing, lots of people are being paid to stay at home and not work, and unemployment and business closures soar? We can't afford as a nation to become fixated on viruses like this. Life must go on.

Sorry if that sounds like a rant but I fear we're on unstable ground here and I wish there was more perspective and questioning of what we're told by the powers that be. Keep bearing in mind that this is a political as well as a scientific issue - when did politicians suddenly become so widely believed?

[SPACKlick]

So first, it shouldn't go un-noted that you've now moved from "The numbers of cases are wrong" to "The protective measures we've used aren't working"

While many departments of hospitals are under-subscribed. The departments that deal with Covid (respiratory and ICU) keep coming close to their limits in area after area as the pandemic moves across the country. I'm not remotely listening to politicians on this. They will sell whatever idea they've glommed on to this week whether they understand it or not. I work in data analytics for the NHS (not this area but speak regularly with colleagues who are working with these numbers) I have friends at PHE and some of the institutions working on the testing numbers. The people looking at the data don't have doubts about what worked. If the question is why haven't measures worked it depends on what you mean by worked. In areas where there has been high compliance with distancing measures cases fall, Covid deaths fall, excess deaths fall.

Early on, there was over-compliance. People doing less in lockdown that would strictly have been sensible. Avoiding meeting people where the excess health risk would have been low and the benefits to their mental health etc would have outweighed them. Now, with lockdown fatigue we have the opposite problem, many people are looking to do everything they can that isn't explicitly forbidden. The same rule receives different results because individuals are behaving differently.

If we'd done nothing millions at least a million people would have died. And plenty have died OF covid. To say they haven't is to ignore reality. We can't afford as a nation NOT to be fixated on this virus right now. We need to get the message out that the little things matter, and still matter as much as they did in lockdown. By the end of next year there should be enough vaccinated that we can be basically back to normal and across next year we'll come out of restrictions step by step.

Edit: Removed a figure that I don't have the numbers to back up from the last paragraph.

[Stephen]

12 months ago the whole world knew nothing about Covid-19, it is completely new.

On 31 December 2019, the World Health Organization ( WHO ) was informed of a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause detected in Wuhan City, Hubei Province, China.
On 12 January 2020, it was announced that a novel coronavirus had been identified in samples obtained from cases and that initial analysis of virus genetic sequences suggested that this was the cause of the outbreak. This virus is referred to as SARS-CoV-2, and the associated disease as COVID-19.
As of 18 December 2020 (10:00am CET), over 71 million cases have been diagnosed globally with more than 1.6 million fatalities.

In the UK there is now a variant of Covid-19.
The rest of the world are concerned about Covid-19 and this variant.
Covid-19: More than 40 countries ban UK arrivals over Covid (BBC link)

This pandemic is real, it is not a political issue per se but a world-wide health issue.

[Triumph-Rat]

Well, I'm willing to put my bulletproof helmet on and duck below the trenches for this post, but I am not changing my plans one bit.

I will be having my Xmas dinner with my family on Boxing Day as we have always done.

All other rules will be obeyed (3 household etc) but this is the only day we can all meet up for various reasons (my son only has my grandson on Boxing Day and my sister, an NHS worker, is working Xmas Day).

It is absolutely ridiculous to say that you can only meet on Xmas Day, what difference does it make which day as long as it is within the rules and only once over the festive period?

Or are they now convinced that Covid is offering a pass to celebrate the birth of the wickle baby Jesus?

[PaulVerrall]

Unfortunately for us we are tier 4 so are not allowed to meet anyone for Xmas at all. It's upset my daughter terribly, but she understands that as healthy people we could probably catch covid and be fine, but her nan and grandad (cancer/COPD) would not survive it. By going to my sister's for Xmas we could inadvertently add to a rapidly spreading virus and someone else's elderly relations could suffer and die because of that.
The government have far more information than us and we only receive snippets of information, I believe the only way to combat it is to trust the government and follow the rules.
If everybody bends the rules to suit themselves, what will the cost be? To human life? To the NHS? To the cancer patients having treatment cancelled due to this pandemic.

I have read and heard a few of these conspiracy theories, some bending truths to gain merit. What I haven't read is a credible reason why a government would do this and near Bankrupt the country, to make people stay home?
I hope everybody enjoys Xmas as best they can, but don't put the lives of others like my parents at risk because they think it makes no difference.

[Triumph-Rat]

Unfortunately for us we are tier 4 so are not allowed to meet anyone for Xmas at all. It's upset my daughter terribly, but she understands that as healthy people we could probably catch covid and be fine, but her nan and grandad (cancer/COPD) would not survive it. By going to my sister's for Xmas we could inadvertently add to a rapidly spreading virus and someone else's elderly relations could suffer and die because of that.
The government have far more information than us and we only receive snippets of information, I believe the only way to combat it is to trust the government and follow the rules.
If everybody bends the rules to suit themselves, what will the cost be? To human life? To the NHS? To the cancer patients having treatment cancelled due to this pandemic.

I have read and heard a few of these conspiracy theories, some bending truths to gain merit. What I haven't read is a credible reason why a government would do this and near Bankrupt the country, to make people stay home?
I hope everybody enjoys Xmas as best they can, but don't put the lives of others like my parents at risk because they think it makes no difference.

@PaulVerrall Have to ask why you could 'probably' catch the virus from a maximum of three households, all of which would be people you know and presumably know their adherence to the Covid guidelines.

The government has no realistic information on this, they are clutching at straws due to their incredible incompetence, not just in this but in everything that they do!!

Myself and my family meeting on Boxing Day is no different to us meeting on Xmas Day (except for the difference of a day), you really need to get a handle on the governments ability to cope with this.

If you still really believe that the government decisions are the best way out of this then you are seriously deluded

[PaulVerrall]

I don't think the government have handled it perfectly, but it's an unprecedented situation with a new virus. I don't subscribe to the press and opposition using hindsight to say we would've done this or that. They kept on saying Boris should cancel Xmas, now they're giving him grief for cancelling it, it's just sensationalism to create news.
You are contradicting yourself in saying the government have no realistic information but you're expecting them to handle a blind situation perfectly.
Boris is guided by the scientists and medical professionals, he is just the implementor of policy.
They have models and plans to try and predict how to overcome this pandemic but it's being undone by people thinking they know more or better and think the rules and guidance don't apply to them.
We live in a society where law is law, not abide by the ones you agree with and disregard the ones you don't.
We are not mixing households this Xmas as we are tier 4. If everybody just ignored it, then where would we be? So we, as we have all along will follow the rules and watch all the others on the TV break them and hope that it's not our family that suffers because of it

[plankton]

It's probably Khama for voting for Brexit and letting Boris stay in......

*I'll get me coat*