Seachem combo Ph & ammonia
There seems to be mixed reviews regarding this product. I have ordered one and intend doing a comparison test with an API master test kit but your opinion if you have one of these test indicators would be of interest and very much appreciated.
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FishyMcFishFace
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May work but IMO they look naf hanging on your tank, you can over obsess too much, you would mostly likely just stare at the bloody things waiting for them to change. The master kits, or since I couldn't get the API kit I use separate Aquacare kits will give you the true readings.
Aquamanta 90L Nano
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Pepper Cory
6 Galaxy Rasbora
6 Amber Tetra
2 Rams (1 blue, 1 golden (breeding))
... More to come...
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Pepper Cory
6 Galaxy Rasbora
6 Amber Tetra
2 Rams (1 blue, 1 golden (breeding))
... More to come...
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Vale!
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Your planned comparison will be difficult - not impossible, though. Bear with me while I take you through it : if you read it twice, it may make some sense on the second readthrough! ...
In your imagination, dissolve some ammonium chloride crytals in pure water. The ammonium bit rearranges itself into two forms which exist simultaneously in the solution.
One form is un-ionised ammonia, sometimes called 'free ammonia' with the formula: NH3. This is the nasty part!
The other form is ionised ammonia, sometimes called 'ammonium', with the formula NH4+. The molecules of this part are unable to find their way into fishy tissues, so they pose no danger.
Taken together, these two forms of ammonia are called 'Total Ammonia'. They exist as an equilibrium, in which one can convert to the other. The ratio between them at any instant is governed by temperature, pH and electrical conductivity ; and the ratio can be calculated if the concentration of Total Ammonia and those three factors are known.
Unless either pH or temperature (or both) is unusually high, the amount of un-ionised ammonia present in the solution of ammonium chloride that you made is tiny. On the other hand, the concentration of un-ionised ammonia that can damage fish is tiny, too : of the order of 0.015 milligrams per litre!
The Seachem Ammonia Alert responds solely to the concentration of un-ionised ammonia. However, the API Ammonia Test measures Total Ammonia (the sum total of both ionised and un-ionised ammonia).
In order successfully to compare the two tests you will need to measure (as accurately as poss) temperature, pH and conductivity and then calculate the concentration of un-ionised ammonia from the API test result - which also needs to be accurate, of course.
If that hasn't put you off, or if you don't have the wherewithal to do some of the measurements, I could volunteer to help if you were to send me a small bottle of sample water.
[Edit : to put hyphens in all the 'unionised's!]
In your imagination, dissolve some ammonium chloride crytals in pure water. The ammonium bit rearranges itself into two forms which exist simultaneously in the solution.
One form is un-ionised ammonia, sometimes called 'free ammonia' with the formula: NH3. This is the nasty part!
The other form is ionised ammonia, sometimes called 'ammonium', with the formula NH4+. The molecules of this part are unable to find their way into fishy tissues, so they pose no danger.
Taken together, these two forms of ammonia are called 'Total Ammonia'. They exist as an equilibrium, in which one can convert to the other. The ratio between them at any instant is governed by temperature, pH and electrical conductivity ; and the ratio can be calculated if the concentration of Total Ammonia and those three factors are known.
Unless either pH or temperature (or both) is unusually high, the amount of un-ionised ammonia present in the solution of ammonium chloride that you made is tiny. On the other hand, the concentration of un-ionised ammonia that can damage fish is tiny, too : of the order of 0.015 milligrams per litre!
The Seachem Ammonia Alert responds solely to the concentration of un-ionised ammonia. However, the API Ammonia Test measures Total Ammonia (the sum total of both ionised and un-ionised ammonia).
In order successfully to compare the two tests you will need to measure (as accurately as poss) temperature, pH and conductivity and then calculate the concentration of un-ionised ammonia from the API test result - which also needs to be accurate, of course.
If that hasn't put you off, or if you don't have the wherewithal to do some of the measurements, I could volunteer to help if you were to send me a small bottle of sample water.
[Edit : to put hyphens in all the 'unionised's!]
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FishyMcFishFace
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You truely are Yoda!Vale! wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 15:57 pm Your planned comparison will be difficult - not impossible, though. Bear with me while I take you through it : if you read it twice, it may make some sense on the second readthrough! ...
In your imagination, dissolve some ammonium chloride crytals in pure water. The ammonium bit rearranges itself into two forms which exist simultaneously in the solution.
One part is unionised ammonia, sometimes called 'free ammonia' with the formula: NH3. This is the nasty part!
The other part is ionised ammonia, sometimes called 'ammonium', with the formula NH4+. The molecules of this part are unable to find their way into fishy tissues, so they pose no danger.
Taken together, these two forms of ammonia are called 'Total Ammonia'. They exist as an equilibrium, in which one can convert to the other. The ratio between them at any instant is governed by temperature, pH and electrical conductivity ; and the ratio can be calculated if the concentration of Total Ammonia and those three factors are known.
Unless either pH or temperature (or both) is unusually high, the amount of unionised ammonia present in the solution of ammonium chloride that you made is tiny. On the other hand, the concentration of unionised ammonia that can damage fish is tiny, too : of the order of 0.015 milligrams per litre!
The Seachem Ammonia Alert responds solely to the concentration of unionised ammonia. The API Ammonia Test measures Total Ammonia (the sum total of both ionised and unionised ammonia).
In order successfully to compare the two tests you will need to measure (as accurately as poss) temperature, pH and conductivity and then calculate the concentration of unionised ammonia from the API test result - which also needs to be accurate, of course).
If that hasn't put you off, or if you don't have the wherewithal to do some of the measurements, I could volunteer to help if you were to send me a small bottle of sample water.
Aquamanta 90L Nano
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Pepper Cory
6 Galaxy Rasbora
6 Amber Tetra
2 Rams (1 blue, 1 golden (breeding))
... More to come...
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Pepper Cory
6 Galaxy Rasbora
6 Amber Tetra
2 Rams (1 blue, 1 golden (breeding))
... More to come...
Thank you Vale for your info. Having read your post "twice" I can see the need for making precise calculations to achieve any kind of comparison. I had a feeling it wouldn't be that simple. All I'm looking for is "at a glance" warning that things are beginning to slide so immediate action can be taken rather than leave it to brew between normal testing intervals.
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Vale!
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No probs.
My offer still stands, though, if you did want to explore further at any point.
My offer still stands, though, if you did want to explore further at any point.
The combo that I've just received is actually two separate items. The PH Alert has a plastic film protecting the sensor which obviously has to be removed before fitting into the tank and I had no problem with that. The Ammonia Alert however is different in respect that the plastic film is not protecting any sensor. The sensor (a small disc aprox 10mm in diameter) comes in its own little plastic bag. To attach this sensor to the chart requires peeling off the back and sticking it in the centre of the chart. The directions such as they are simply tell you to remove the protective film, do not touch the sensor and place it in the tank. So I checked out Seachem Alert on U-tube and sure enough its totally different. The video shows a protective dome shaped plastic housing (mine was flat) and its simply removed and put in the tank, dead simple. If anyone else has this product I'd be interested to know how it was packaged.
Update on how Seachems PH & Ammonia Alert is doing. After being in the tank three days both sensors for Ph & Ammonia have not changed colour, but my API test kit shows roughly 1.7ppm ammonia & 7.5PH. I'm now pushing ebay for a refund.
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Vale!
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re pH : what was your reference pH measurement? And what was the Total Ammonia concentration (as measured by your API kit) in the tank at that point?
re ammonia : assuming temp = 28C ; Total Ammonia = 1.7mg/l ; pH = 7.5 ; and conductivity 600uS/cm, then the concentration of un-ionised ammonia in the tank (which is what the Seachem Alert measures - remember?) would be 0.02mg/l. If I recall correctly, that's right on the lower limit of what the Alert will respond to.
re ammonia : assuming temp = 28C ; Total Ammonia = 1.7mg/l ; pH = 7.5 ; and conductivity 600uS/cm, then the concentration of un-ionised ammonia in the tank (which is what the Seachem Alert measures - remember?) would be 0.02mg/l. If I recall correctly, that's right on the lower limit of what the Alert will respond to.
Vale, Vale, Vale, there you go again frying my brain. I tried uploading images but looks like I failed. Anyway in lay-mans terms this is what happened - Day1 the API test kicked off with ammonia 2ppm PH 7.5 Day3 the Seachem Alerts were installed with the same API readings ammonia 2ppm PH 7.5 Day 6 API tested ammonia at 1.7ppm PH 7.5. I have no means of measuring conductivity or what ions are floating around in my tank (meters are so expensive).
Both Seachem Alert sensors for ammonia and PH have remained the same darkish brown colour through out which does not relate to anything on either chart. The video I watched demonstrated Seachems ammonia alert being tested by holding the "badge" (as they called it) over an opened bottle of window cleaner and there was an immediate reaction by turning blue. I know this is a gas test and has no real bearing on testing water but at least it changed colour which was something.