Stock levels

[Martinspuddle]

Tbh water hardness has never come up before when I've discussed fish choices with my LFS, as long as my amonia/nitrate/nitrite are all good. I always figured that since they operate in the same area, their stock must be acclimatised to this area's water

The answer is down to their health and longevity.

Although many tropical fish can be acclimatised to local hardwater, what many aquatic stores don't tell you is health issues it causes to the fishes accustomed to living in acidic water.

Most, not all, of these species of fish we keep need soft acidic water to breed and the fry have to be raised as such water, then from the whole seller the stock is delivered to the store which has local hardwater, acclimatised to the shop display aquarium for sale to you the fishkeeper. The fish is already weakened by the move, immunity could be low, making them susceptible to disease or infection and their placed into water they don't thrive in. Short term this is not too much of an issue for those strong enough to survive, if you then quarantine, treat with medications and adjust the water parameters accordingly, the health issues shouldn't arise. By keeping these fish long term in water parameters which might be chemically are OK, but in the hard alkaline water, the health issues in that fish will start, eventually causing their demise.

For instance, Cherry Barb (Puntius titteya) while this little Barb from Sri Lanka can live in hard alkaline water but it's longevity is greatly shortened. Calcium deposits from hardwater build up in the fishes organs resulting in nerve damage and a early death. A Cherry Barbs lifespan, you can expect one to three years in hardwater but kept in water just slighty acidic to neutral conditions, six to seven years is not uncommon.

[billabong1985]

Tbh water hardness has never come up before when I've discussed fish choices with my LFS, as long as my amonia/nitrate/nitrite are all good. I always figured that since they operate in the same area, their stock must be acclimatised to this area's water

The answer is down to their health and longevity.

Although many tropical fish can be acclimatised to local hardwater, what many aquatic stores don't tell you is health issues it causes to the fishes accustomed to living in acidic water.

Most, not all, of these species of fish we keep need soft acidic water to breed and the fry have to be raised as such water, then from the whole seller the stock is delivered to the store which has local hardwater, acclimatised to the shop display aquarium for sale to you the fishkeeper. The fish is already weakened by the move, immunity could be low, making them susceptible to disease or infection and their placed into water they don't thrive in. Short term this is not too much of an issue for those strong enough to survive, if you then quarantine, treat with medications and adjust the water parameters accordingly, the health issues shouldn't arise. By keeping these fish long term in water parameters which might be chemically are OK, but in the hard alkaline water, the health issues in that fish will start, eventually causing their demise.

For instance, Cherry Barb (Puntius titteya) while this little Barb from Sri Lanka can live in hard alkaline water but it's longevity is greatly shortened. Calcium deposits from hardwater build up in the fishes organs resulting in nerve damage and a early death. A Cherry Barbs lifespan, you can expect one to three years in hardwater but kept in water just slighty acidic to neutral conditions, six to seven years is not uncommon.

That's really interesting, definitely something to bear in mind in future, I've done a quick search on the fish I currently have, according to the Maidenhead Aquatics site (they're my LFS), Panda Garras should be OK up to 15dH, Red Robin Gourami up to 12dH, Amano Shrimp up to 18dH, Green Neon Tetra under 8dH, and Bronze Corys don't even have a rating so apparently they don't care, so if anything it's the Gourami and Tetra at the most risk (although I swear this tetra is bulletproof!). We did originally get a pair of the Gourami's but one died for no obvious reason after a few weeks, I just found it on it's side at the bottom of the tank one day, still alive, but even when I put it in a fry box (I dont have a secondary tank so was the bext I could do at the time) and gave it it's own food, it barely attempted to eat and was dead the next day, we weren't sure if the other one was being a bit grumpy with it but I didn't see any major fighting, maybe the hard water did make it weak, would also go a way to explaining why the 10 tetras we started out with got ich so soon after we brought them home.

I'm also wondering whether I should add an air stone or small wave maker to the tank to give the Garras better water flow, from what I've looked up the Corys, Tetra and Shrimp should be fine with stronger flow as long as it's not too much, the Gourami might not like it as much but if I put one lower in the tank then I would have thought the top half of the tank should still be OK?

[Martinspuddle]

That's really interesting, definitely something to bear in mind in future, I've done a quick search on the fish I currently have, according to the Maidenhead Aquatics site (they're my LFS), Panda Garras should be OK up to 15dH, Red Robin Gourami up to 12dH, Amano Shrimp up to 18dH, Green Neon Tetra under 8dH, and Bronze Corys don't even have a rating so apparently they don't care, so if anything it's the Gourami and Tetra at the most risk (although I swear this tetra is bulletproof!). We did have 2 Gourami's at first actually but one died for no obvious reason, we weren't sure if the other one was being a bit grumpy with it but I didn't see any major fighting, maybe the hard water did make it weak, would also go a way to explaining why the 10 tetras we started out with got ich so soon after we brought them home.

I'm also wondering whether I should add an air stone or small wave maker to the tank to give the Garras better water flow, from what I've looked up the Corys, Tetra and Shrimp should be fine with stronger flow as long as it's not too much, the Gourami might not like it as much but if I put one lower in the tank then I would have thought the top half of the tank should still be OK?

Gourami's are found in slow moving water or ponds, so not really.

Wild Corydoras aeneus have been caught in water as low as 6 dKH to as high as 15 dKH depending on where their found.

Sometime back I posted a video link to wild Corydoras aeneus in Bolivia and tells you the water parameters they were found in: Below water

[billabong1985]

That's really interesting, definitely something to bear in mind in future, I've done a quick search on the fish I currently have, according to the Maidenhead Aquatics site (they're my LFS), Panda Garras should be OK up to 15dH, Red Robin Gourami up to 12dH, Amano Shrimp up to 18dH, Green Neon Tetra under 8dH, and Bronze Corys don't even have a rating so apparently they don't care, so if anything it's the Gourami and Tetra at the most risk (although I swear this tetra is bulletproof!). We did have 2 Gourami's at first actually but one died for no obvious reason, we weren't sure if the other one was being a bit grumpy with it but I didn't see any major fighting, maybe the hard water did make it weak, would also go a way to explaining why the 10 tetras we started out with got ich so soon after we brought them home.

I'm also wondering whether I should add an air stone or small wave maker to the tank to give the Garras better water flow, from what I've looked up the Corys, Tetra and Shrimp should be fine with stronger flow as long as it's not too much, the Gourami might not like it as much but if I put one lower in the tank then I would have thought the top half of the tank should still be OK?

Gourami's are found in slow moving water or ponds, so not really.

Wild Corydoras aeneus have been caught in water as low as 6 dKH to as high as 15 dKH depending on where their found.

Sometime back I posted a video link to wild Corydoras aeneus in Bolivia and tells you the water parameters they were found in: Below water

OK, so sounds like I need to leave things alone, not over-think it, and just see how things go then, I'm just concious of making sure the tank is as good an environment as I can make it for everyone, and I keep reading about Garras needing highly oxygenated water with good flow and am wondering if my filter running with the venturi is enough. I guess it wouldn't hurt to add more plants to help with oxygenation? I currently have 2 cryptos and 2 anubias, I started out with a couple of java ferns too but they wilted and rotted so I ended up removing them and replacing them with some artificial plants, maybe I should try something similar again. That being said the Garras seem fine currently, happily munching away at the algae/biofilm on the glass, filter and plants all day, though one has been hunkering down behind the filter at night, which worried me at first, but they're both out and all over the tank again by morning so I guess it's just found a resting spot it likes.

[Martinspuddle]

I keep reading about Garras needing highly oxygenated water with good flow and am wondering if my filter running with the venturi is enough. I guess it wouldn't hurt to add more plants to help with oxygenation?

Wouldn't harm, give them move cover too. Garra flavatra you probably find hide at night to avoid predators in the wild.

Most of us use Seriously fish website for information - link to your Garra's Seriouslyfish

I started out with a couple of java ferns too but they wilted and rotted so I ended up removing them and replacing them with some artificial plants, maybe I should try something similar again.

Did you not attach the Microsorum pteropus to rocks or wood, this plant doesn't normally rot easily.

[billabong1985]

I keep reading about Garras needing highly oxygenated water with good flow and am wondering if my filter running with the venturi is enough. I guess it wouldn't hurt to add more plants to help with oxygenation?

Wouldn't harm, give them move cover too. Garra flavatra you probably find hide at night to avoid predators in the wild.

Most of us use Seriously fish website for information - link to your Garra's Seriouslyfish

I started out with a couple of java ferns too but they wilted and rotted so I ended up removing them and replacing them with some artificial plants, maybe I should try something similar again.

Did you not attach the Microsorum pteropus to rocks or wood, this plant doesn't normally rot easily.

Ah OK so normal behaviour for them then, they wond fit back there once they grow anyway so I'm sure they'll find somewhere else to hide

I had my java ferns glued to rocks yeah, I may have been mistaken about them actually rotting, but the leaves wilted and went really black, so in hindsight might have just been a ton of black algae. I got them originally because I knew them being attached to rocks would make them easy to move for cleaning or re-scaping, debating trying them again or attempting something different like amazon swords and just leaving them in the baskets until I'm set on their positions

[Martinspuddle]

You have any pictures of your setup?

[billabong1985]

You have any pictures of your setup?

Yes, this is the current setup, the 3 plants at the back are the artificial ones (probably didn't need to clarify that lol) that I'm considering replacing. I'm also debating getting another piece of wood to give some more verticality to the scape and give the shrimp and garras more to cling to, but don't want to overcrowd things so undecided on that

[Martinspuddle]

You have any pictures of your setup?

Yes, this is the current setup, the 3 plants at the back are the artificial ones (probably didn't need to clarify that lol) that I'm considering replacing. I'm also debating getting another piece of wood to give some more verticality to the scape and give the shrimp and garras more to cling to, but don't want to overcrowd things so undecided on that

Overcrowded, don't look at my setup then. Question, you run out of water or is the tide gone out?

[billabong1985]

You have any pictures of your setup?

Yes, this is the current setup, the 3 plants at the back are the artificial ones (probably didn't need to clarify that lol) that I'm considering replacing. I'm also debating getting another piece of wood to give some more verticality to the scape and give the shrimp and garras more to cling to, but don't want to overcrowd things so undecided on that

Overcrowded, don't look at my setup then. Question, you run out of water or is the tide gone out?

Hah OK, I shouldn't be worrying too much about that then I guess

Funny you mention the water level, I noticed just yesterday it was looking a little low, when I do my water changes I do an almost full 10L bucket, I reckon I must have been putting back in a smidge less than I'm taking out every week and over a few weeks it's dropped the level slowly enough I've not really noticed, I'm going to top it up when I do my next water change at the weekend