Struggling with discus

[Lee_k]

Its also a marketing thing, people put "beef heart" - because that's what people are told they want.

However higher quality foods are sourced from good quality/no hormone treated meats and its a "mix" so whilst there's beefheart there, its joined by vegetables and other ingredients.

Obviously cheaper feeds in most cases - you'll get what you pay for

[Stephen]

Here’s the bottom line. Beef heart is fed because it gives fast growth and good colours - exactly what commercial breeders want. But mammalian meat contains saturated fats, which fish cannot digest. These fats get deposited in and around the liver, kidneys and other organs. These deposits decrease survival rates long term, meaning that, on average, fish fed beef heart will grow quickly (there are foods which give quicker growth) but will die younger... on average.

That's along the lines of what I read.

[Lee_k]

Stendker claim 15 years lifespan I believe with up to 20 for those really well kept.

I think from reading around that most tank discus usually live around 10 years

[Gripes]

Alot of the above is the common "mis conceptions" with discus, all the same things i'd read before talking to my local stendker dealer, some owners at there "discus evenings" and from some mails to stendker themselves prior to buying... especially Stendkers.

Obviously people may have there own experiences, but I can only tell you about mine.

Its also worth reading through some of the articles from stendker themselves (and keep in mind they need there fish to last and be of good quality to sell, otherwise they'd never sell the volumes they do especially given there far from cheap fish!

This is the flyer your dealer should have given you with your purchase:
https://www.diskuszucht-stendker.de/plu ... ker_en.pdf

And general "manual"
https://diskuszucht-stendker.de/en/Diskus-Handbuch/

You'll also find if you email stendker direct with any question/queries etc they are always very fast to respond and always happy to help.

Email: diskuszucht_stendker@t-online.de



My Stendkers (you can see them in my tank log) are heading towards 18month old now. My tank gets 1 water change (around 30-40%) per week (it did get 2 for a while a month or so back but that was in combat of BBA not for the discus) and always has since the discus were added (6 of them) at around 6cm. Filter was for the first 12months a betta choice 1620 UV (Now a FX4). Temp sits around 28-29c

I'd have a few questions for your situation however,

- Where did you get them? - Did they offer advice when you lost any?

- Why move away from beefheart? - Its recommended by the breeder to leave them on beefheart for their entire lives

- How often are you worming them?

- Are you giving live foods?

- Have new fish been added since they went in - and did they get quarantine or any tank treatment after adding?

- What is the other stocking?

I presume temp wise you mean 29c not f - I've not heard of SAE causing too many problems with discus, its worth watching tho to check they arent trying to attach to the slime coat on the discus as this could ultimately lead to death

I'm happy to try and help or tell you about what i've found, tbf i've never lost one my main problem has always been there a bit skittish by nature so have injured themselves time to time by darting into roots etc! But in terms of keeping them, there literally no different than a neon tetra (in fact i've lost more of them....)

Few people to look into from youtube who keep stenkders:

- George Farmer
- MD Fishtanks

Both of which will back up the one water change per week thing - in MD case maybe less

Also watch the below, and this is in regards to the "more fragile" Asian discus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EuC3nKZ1c&t=87s

Discus no different than most things, the days of them being made of glass are long gone, i think this dates to years back when nearly everything coming in was wild, stressed and not understood as well - same as anything, you'll also find alot of discus keepers really enjoy the "extra maintenance" and the trying to get extra few mm out of the size and the entire tank rotates around the discus so its all part of the hobby for them - but its not a requirement if thats not your thing!

Lee

Really appreciate the links , very useful thanks.
I purchased my discus( 8 in total) from MH in plymouth. A bit of advice was given when I started losing them, mainly to try and keep my nitrates down (always been around 60) reduce beefheart because of this and try to increase flake/frozen etc.

I started worming them once a month but since read somewhere that it’s not necessary to keep this up if no new additions of plants/fish are added so I now worm once every couple of months or so.

No live food or new fish added.

My other fish are
Snowball x1
Green phantomx1
Albino bristlenosex1
Golden nuggetx1
4x corys(spotted)
2x corys( albino peppered long finned)
7x sae
7x albino cherry barbs
7x cherry barbs
12x cardinals
2 honey gourami
1x Platy

And yes 29c not Fahrenheit

After reading the advice on stendler site, it states having the idea number of 10. Having 8 to begin with, I have always lost the weakest one, after going darkened, not eating and slowly getting skinny and dying. If I try again and introduce more, will the dominant one repeat this again and what can I do different. I did have 3 x zebra loaches in there until 6 weeks ago but they are now in my 110 tank and ready for rehoming along with a couple others no longer needed

[black ghost]

Nitrates of 60. That’s most likely the problem. Discus are known to be relatively intolerant of nitrates. I wouldn’t even try to keep them in anything over 20.

Long term exposure to excessive nitrates leads to poor growth, chronic stress, and increased susceptibility to diseases.

[Gripes]

Appreciate your reply . How can I deal with my nitrate problem. I tried more plant growth, even introducing co2, then reading that plants can stop fish getting to areas where food may lay and decay. Was told by lfs that 40-60 should be expected if feeding with beefheart and should be ok.
Seems like when you win, you lose and when you lose, you win scenario

[black ghost]

You can mix your tap water with RO water...

Discus are one of the fish for which you really need to ignore what an LFS tells you. They’ll never tell you they’re very demanding, because then they wouldn’t sell any/many.

40-60 expected with beef heart? Only if you’re not doing enough water changes (with low-nitrate water).

[Gripes]

Knowing nothing about RO water, what’s the best way of acquiring this? Is it buy it in or make myself ? Sorry for being naive

[black ghost]

You can buy it from an lfs, which means carting it home every week, or you can install your own. It’s an initial outlay, but it will pay for itself in the long run.

[Lee_k]

You can add some nitrite resin into the filter too - its the only thing I found that worked as my tap water has moderate nitrates - with the resin and plants the tanks nitrates are lower than tap water!

Not sure i'd worry too much on the nitrates of 60 tho, stendker claim there tanks nitrates are at 200mg/l and ask stores to not keep them under 100mg/l so not too shocked when placed in a efficient home aquarium

https://www.diskuszucht-stendker.de/plu ... eln_en.pdf

How did the deaths occur? did they starve after removing teh beefheart? - My stendkers dont even react to other food in the plant, bloodworms and live foods can float past there faces and they dont budge, they dont recognise it as food until beefheart goes in.

I started with 6, eventually (After around a year!) - adding a 7th. I feed 1.5 blocks of beefheart twice a day (1 block 3 times a day would be better but im at work all day!)

You've never seen the barbs nipping at the discus? or any of the other fish trying to attach to them? - seems a large mix of different fish, what are the dimensions?

Have you ran water tests - and what were the results?

As far as worming, what were you using? I tend to worm a few times a year just cus even if plants and stocking are sorting you've still got foods etc going in and I have a few tanks that I use same syphon etc so just got into the habit.

When the fish actually died were they sudden or deteriorated over time?